Absolutely brilliant work, you deserve great thanks for documenting and putting all this together, which I am sure required much time and effort. Gender ideology will eventually be recognized by society as the rank nonsense that it is, and your work is such a valuable contribution towards understanding the mindset of the totalitarian liberal. Thank you!
Unfortunately, it sounds very much like things on other hot button issues (including sex ID) in the traditional churches we’ve been involved in. When these groups begin to bring in money they become a hot bed of politics, and infiltrators. However, anything that uses group mind to ostracize anyone with divergent thought and basically turn on them requiring contracts & denying freedoms; requiring compliance it’s fulfilling the prerequisites of a cult. Welcome yourself out of it, shake off the dust & embrace FREEDOM. It’s where real life is. The hardest part is getting over being deceived into believing they were friends and you had respect & love. It’s an opportunity to embrace truth, live free, seek real genuine connections.
Thanks for your words Hope Rising. I like the term "group mind." What is sad for us is that we took great sustenance from the friendships we had, and the dancing/singing/swimming/visiting/etc we did with our former friends. It's hard to replace decades old traditions and friendships, but we're nurturing new friendships, creating new traditions with new friends, feeling joyful about so many things in our lives. Thanks again.
Thank you, Carol , for exposing the hypocrisy of a former liberal church that has been captured by the gender ideology. You illustrate brilliantly the cult mentality that has taken over . I was surprised that you quoted what I posted about my experience in an authoritarian country , especially since you were tarred with being an ally of Hitler’s views on race! How very ironic!
When all this started, not really that long ago, I likened it to the Dark Ages and in fact, refer to our current age as Dark Ages 2 and I include the covid hoax, as well as the attempt to frighten us into submission with threats of future "pandemics". The ideology I liken to a colonization of half the human race. There's no more land to steal, plunder or conquer. So now this same mindset is simply colonizing women. Since this all started with a demented billionaire who has used his money to promote this agenda, I would wonder about funding offered to the Unitarian Church in exchange for their support. Many formerly justice-seeking organizations have been captured in this way including ACLU and, of all things, the La Leche League, an organization created to help women gain the confidence and knowledge to successfully breast-feed their babies, including me and my baby 50 years ago. They have now issued a statement to the effect that demented men with "chestfeeding" fantasies would be prioritized over the need of proper nourishment for newborns. People who are confident in their beliefs do not fear debate, don't need to encourage censorship. Plus this thing about a white woman pretending to be black is "outrageous", it's "different" from sex-based dysphoria. How? Why? Utterly irrational, the whole thing. I agree that peope should be free to pretend to be anyone they choose, but to mandate that others must fall into line in order to avoid hurting someone's feelings?
Let the trans pretend whatever they wish. Placing the force of law, and the employment of persons, dependent on your willingness to buy this colossal gilded piece of shit is part of the perversion. People have lost their jobs by not going along, although some of that is being reversed in the courts.
Thank you for writing and sharing this information. "“Progressive trans allies” only acknowledge and care about affirmation-seeking trans-identifying individuals. Everyone else is erased." Yes, parents are erased or cancelled too as I wrote in my substack. https://thetranstrain.substack.com/p/the-cancellation-of-parents
Please keep writing. Your perspective needs to be witnessed like those of gender-critical parents like myself and those I represent.
Thanks you for documenting this tragic brainwashing. I've written to officials at the local YMCA pleading for them to restore the women's weight room and single sex locker rooms. No response, even though the Y has lost so many members they had to drastically curtail open hours.
UUs are going to have to come to terms with the vast damage they have done to children. No group has been more active and more enthused at promoting the insanity of gender stupid than UUs. The OWL program promotes trans and gay choices, and denigrates normal hetero choices. My view is that we should tolerate trans and gay members without promoting or celebrating this choice. I know several UUs who have trans children, and the affirmation by parents and the community has made the trans choice more inevitable and more strong. We are wrong as UUs.
Thanks, Carol. I've kept up with your Kafkaesque ordeal party because it's interesting, if distressing, in itself but partly also because your clear and detailed documentation of what you've been subjected to by the UUC represents a microcosm of what's happening to so many people all over the Western world at the hands of this insidious, authoritarian, regressive cult. I'm sorry your spiritual home no longer exists for you as a result of the UUC being captured by this cult ideology. I think it's clear you and Bruce have outgrown this organisation and deserve far better. I trust you will find a spiritual path and hopefully a group of kindred spirits more in tune with your values and your high level of moral and intellectual integrity.
It's only a matter of time before the harms of gender ideology are widely recognised and ultimately rejected as more people are negatively affected. However, in the meantime the widespread infiltration of this ideology into every aspect of society, supported by "progressives," is truly a dystopian nightmare which I fear is only going to get worse for some years yet. You have my complete support and I'll continue to follow your excellent blog.
To be sure, this behavior is not limited to Progressive Trans Allies. It is Progressivism. Progressives, though they won’t acknowledge it, need to demonize another group. The presented image of loving and compassion is a facade used and presented to assure themselves of their superiority (as you experienced with their innuendo and insinuation).
It is also telling that Progressives commonly call others they don’t like, racists and Nazis because the Nazis were the Progressives of that time. Progressives turn on their own when convenient.
Progressives and the Democratic Party. The Dems promote trannies. The states that are "trans refuges" are dem states. If you oppose tranny madness, vote Republican.
No! Absolutely no way will I vote for that orange scumbag. You vote for whoever you want, but those who identify as Democrats, liberals or even centrists are voting against their interests if they vote for Trump. As Democrats, our mission should be to return our party to sanity. (Check out: https://www.di-ag.org/) The Republican Party has been destroyed by Trump, and I don't know if it will ever rise from the ashes. Republicans won't save us from gender ideology, because they can't even save themselves.
And BTW, stop referring to "trannies." That's disrespectful. I don't subscribe to gender ideology, but I still believe those who are gender dysphoric, trans, or non binary deserve our compassion and respect. Even if we don't receive it in return.
Trannies - I honestly don't care if you or they are offended. Get off your fucking high fucking horse, honeypie. Neither you nor the trannies control my language. As you are a liberal, I know that you have a deep abiding need to tell others what to do, but you need to control that impulse.
I WANT to offend the trannies. It's time to stop treating them as if they are honest actors. They are not. They are pedophiles, and groomers, and unworthy of my respect. I use trannie and will use it more in the future.
Since the gender cult uses words like “ transphobes” , I see nothing wrong with calling them “ trannies”.
Plus, I also see nothing wrong with offending them . They do more than offending anyone who disagrees with their ideology! Just look at what the TRA’s do to women!
Sure, if you want to add to their contempt and make them feel even more self-righteous, and even less likely to listen to a sane discussion on the issue, then by all means call them names. Makes all of us with genuine concern who are trying to have thoughtful discussions look bad, though.
When people act like racists and Nazis, they deserve that label. I'm thinking of Donald Trump, JD Vance, Mark Robinson, Laura Loomer, Q Anon conspiracy theorists and every other MAGA voter on the Trump train. Let's not pretend the problem is just with the far left. The far right is bonkers and has been since Trump came on the scene in 2015.
Hating Trump and others is just another form of cultism… When were we taught to hate and “other” people? We are all brothers and sisters. I was a “Never Trumper” in 2016, but in 2020, the Lord gently led me to answers that showed me I had been brainwashed by mainstream media and propaganda towards Donald Trump. The Lord lovingly asked me, “When did I teach you to hate?” I will never forget that moment, I wasn’t filled with shame or blame, just loving correction. Then I began to see Donald Trump with new eyes. No he’s not perfect, but he did and will again make America Great, Affordable, and with RFK (a life long Democrat) at his side, they will make America Healthy Again! I’m so excited at the thought of having two former democrats working together! I don’t consider myself a Republican as I’ve voted on both sides and feel that I’m an Independent, but I’m voting all RED this year to save our country from censorship, trans-mutilation surgeries (which my 22 year old son wants to let the government pay for him to have), to help our children with chronic health conditions (which I’ve also suffered with since age 9), and commonsense. Please consider having an open conversation to discuss issues rather than blindly seeing only one side…
No, I don’t hate Trump. I don’t hate his supporters. But he is not fit to be president, and you haven’t been led to support him for any rational reason.
Trans ideology has destroyed the Unitarian Universalist Church that was such a big part of my childhood in the 1970s and 1980s. It is tragic when I try to think what the Reverend Robert Mabry Doss would think if he were still alive today.
I am with you. I was a part of the Seattle network of Unitarianism about 25 years ago, then took a pause. Whenever I considered returning in recent years, there were red flags so I didn’t continue. But it’s sad. It was originally a safer haven of free thinkers in my young adulthood. Now it’s another loss to grieve—one more loss to ideological capture in these times. Congratulations on having the courage and fortitude to stand for your convictions.
Read the quote in context. This person has never spoken with us about gender identity issues. Nonetheless she declares she never will. She takes this stand even as we are expelled and even as her organization embarks on aggressive promotion of gender ideology including to children (a major action) without any back and forth with those who have concerns. By the way, the "very different beliefs" she has could well be deemed "very different" by her because she is responding to the straw man inaccurate version of what Bruce and I advocate rather than the reality of what we advocate.
> This person has never spoken with us about gender identity issues. Nonetheless she declares she never will.
Again, why is this a problem? That person has stated a disinterest in having a particular conversation with you. Why do you think you have a right to demand she has this conversation with you regardless?
The person in question has declared that her position differs from ours, without giving us the decency of a discussion, a back and forth wherein she makes sure that she understands correctly what we think, and she hears what we have to say in response to her concerns about our views. The key here is this: we are being drastically punished by her organization WITH HER CONSENT. Moreover, we were friends for a long time.
Your wording is odd. You challenge our "right to demand." We are not pestering this person. We are honoring her request to not contact her. We have never claimed that we have a right to force her to talk to us.
Her approach, however, has made us lose all respect for her. It is not one to praise. That this woman's approach is embraced by nearly every single person in our former community is very troubling.
It reinforces ignorance, and constructs a cult-like bubble around those who remain in the community. It directly contradicts the Eliot Covenant which says everyone promises to hear and respectfully consider the views of people who have different perspectives. It's also just a nasty way to treat friends.
> The person in question has declared that her position differs from ours, without giving us the decency of a discussion, a back and forth wherein she makes sure that she understands correctly what we think, and she hears what we have to say in response to her concerns about our views.
Again, you do not have the right to demand that people have a conversation with you, on a particular subject or at all, when they do not want to have that conversation with you. Why are you presenting this as something that you have a right to expect from them? More, why are you using this particular statement, a statement of specific disinterest, as anything bad?
Are trans issues the only thing you post on your mailing list?
Also, you literally do demand that she contact you in the first paragraph of your comment. Which is it?
It's the "Eliot Institute" which "creates and supports an intentional, inclusive community of celebration, friendship, and joy with opportunities for exploration, spirituality, and growth for Unitarian Universalists, their families and friends." It has organized and run "intergenerational camps for UUs, their families and friends since 1947." The particular camp we used to attend was the first week of August each year in Seabeck, WA, and was attended by people from B.C., WA, OR, and a few other states/provinces. Bruce began attending a long time ago when his children were small, having been invited by someone he knew via the children, and I started attending when Bruce & I met many years ago. In between the August camps, we visited/hosted/spoke by phone and email, with people we knew from camp, loving those friendships (which are now lost.) The Eliot descent into gender madness is part of the overall UU descent, as I think you mention in another comment. The people we've lost are members of various UU congregations in their respective locations, which are all immersed in the madness we're sure, and the OWLs program/other UU things, have been corrupted by it.
I think the problem is when you have someone you thought of as like minded who writes you off over one issue on which you have some disagreement. I've been chastised and unfriended on social media by people (sometimes close friends and family) who generally vote the way I do, but are confused on the issue of gender. It's disheartening.
If they sincerely disagree with you and are not going to be convinced by you, their making it clear that they are uninterested in carrying on in that specific discussion makes sense. Why should they do something that would create only heat, no light?
It arguably shows that they are willing to compromise, being willing to compartmentalize away a subject of disagreement while leaving the broader relationship open. There are presumably other things that you can talk about, other subjects of conversation right?
Holding up that attempt at compromise as a rejection is definitely a choice. If you demand vindication of your original position from them ... Well. I would suggest that, for anyone, there are much more productive things to aim for that that.
You have it backwards. I am willing to compromise, drop the subject or whatever would make them feel safe from someone they label a TERF. THEY are not. THEY reject me outright, because I don't agree with them on one subject.
They are entitled to do so, if they disagree with you particularly in one area and if they think this disagreement enough to merit the end of the relationship. People can maintain their own standards.
Who are you? This is nuts. Are you in agreement with those who would mistreat and shut "gender critical" people out of their lives? You seem to be making the case that it's justified, because it doesn't meet their "standards." If that's the case, then they really have no tolerance for dissenting views, or any understanding that reasonable people can have different opinions on an issue. You're admitting they're intolerant, and that they're willing to throw away a friendship over a disagreement on just one issue. That's their right, but it's ridiculous.
I think that being surprised that people who think that trans rights are a serious human rights issue act in accordance with their beliefs is unwise. Why on Earth would you not do people the credit of believing what they say? I would honestly think you should be more out out if they said one thing and did the other: That would be rank hypocrisy. At least this way you know your friends are honest.
You might disagree with them, sure. You have not convinced them of that. Again, being upset that what you see as a minor issue they see as a major one, that what you might think they should take as a reasonable difference they see as a dealbreaker, is unwise. This especially if they have been consistent in saying this is a major issue, no matter what you might think or prefer if it.
I ran away from what I know understand as a cult, I couldn’t tell the difference between ad hominem attacks and actual death threats.
My rational mind knew the difference but my body did not and is slowly learning not to overreact to judgements like what happened to me.
I started recognizing the DARVO and the gaslighting. I thought that I was guilty or would be accused of the exact thing I was the victim of, of being raped as a child. This accusation never happened, and I was able to escape and free myself.
I was told or it was implied to me that every time I was vulnerable and talked about my life story, it caused people harm, and that in order for me to stay I had to apologize for talking about my life experiences from before I arrived at the church and to also apologize for not making sense or lying about having a speech disorder.
This has left me afraid of judgement thinking if I say the wrong thing or interact with the police, then I would say something that would cause my life to be ended. This is not the case, and I was capable of being nervous with the police with them not seeing it as anything other than nervousness.
They over reacted or began to over react to every little thing I said and isolated me from interacting with anyone because I was told my normal voice or disorder makes people uncomfortable. Up until they screamed at me and I had to run away. They wanted me to apologize because I raised my voice back when I wasn’t being listened to, to which I tried but they didn’t accept it. I was too disabled for them, to traumatized from the wrong reasons and too anxious.
I’m so sorry for your experience… everyone is deserving of love - church should be a hospital accepting of everyone, but also recognizing that we all need to change to become more like Christ and align our will to His. 🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻
Absolutely brilliant work, you deserve great thanks for documenting and putting all this together, which I am sure required much time and effort. Gender ideology will eventually be recognized by society as the rank nonsense that it is, and your work is such a valuable contribution towards understanding the mindset of the totalitarian liberal. Thank you!
It is a large societal-wide cult.
Unfortunately, it sounds very much like things on other hot button issues (including sex ID) in the traditional churches we’ve been involved in. When these groups begin to bring in money they become a hot bed of politics, and infiltrators. However, anything that uses group mind to ostracize anyone with divergent thought and basically turn on them requiring contracts & denying freedoms; requiring compliance it’s fulfilling the prerequisites of a cult. Welcome yourself out of it, shake off the dust & embrace FREEDOM. It’s where real life is. The hardest part is getting over being deceived into believing they were friends and you had respect & love. It’s an opportunity to embrace truth, live free, seek real genuine connections.
Thanks for your words Hope Rising. I like the term "group mind." What is sad for us is that we took great sustenance from the friendships we had, and the dancing/singing/swimming/visiting/etc we did with our former friends. It's hard to replace decades old traditions and friendships, but we're nurturing new friendships, creating new traditions with new friends, feeling joyful about so many things in our lives. Thanks again.
Thank you, Carol , for exposing the hypocrisy of a former liberal church that has been captured by the gender ideology. You illustrate brilliantly the cult mentality that has taken over . I was surprised that you quoted what I posted about my experience in an authoritarian country , especially since you were tarred with being an ally of Hitler’s views on race! How very ironic!
When all this started, not really that long ago, I likened it to the Dark Ages and in fact, refer to our current age as Dark Ages 2 and I include the covid hoax, as well as the attempt to frighten us into submission with threats of future "pandemics". The ideology I liken to a colonization of half the human race. There's no more land to steal, plunder or conquer. So now this same mindset is simply colonizing women. Since this all started with a demented billionaire who has used his money to promote this agenda, I would wonder about funding offered to the Unitarian Church in exchange for their support. Many formerly justice-seeking organizations have been captured in this way including ACLU and, of all things, the La Leche League, an organization created to help women gain the confidence and knowledge to successfully breast-feed their babies, including me and my baby 50 years ago. They have now issued a statement to the effect that demented men with "chestfeeding" fantasies would be prioritized over the need of proper nourishment for newborns. People who are confident in their beliefs do not fear debate, don't need to encourage censorship. Plus this thing about a white woman pretending to be black is "outrageous", it's "different" from sex-based dysphoria. How? Why? Utterly irrational, the whole thing. I agree that peope should be free to pretend to be anyone they choose, but to mandate that others must fall into line in order to avoid hurting someone's feelings?
Let the trans pretend whatever they wish. Placing the force of law, and the employment of persons, dependent on your willingness to buy this colossal gilded piece of shit is part of the perversion. People have lost their jobs by not going along, although some of that is being reversed in the courts.
Thank you for writing and sharing this information. "“Progressive trans allies” only acknowledge and care about affirmation-seeking trans-identifying individuals. Everyone else is erased." Yes, parents are erased or cancelled too as I wrote in my substack. https://thetranstrain.substack.com/p/the-cancellation-of-parents
Please keep writing. Your perspective needs to be witnessed like those of gender-critical parents like myself and those I represent.
Thanks, and thanks for the link to your substack. Keep on writing, too, as your perspective badly needs to be witnessed!
Thanks you for documenting this tragic brainwashing. I've written to officials at the local YMCA pleading for them to restore the women's weight room and single sex locker rooms. No response, even though the Y has lost so many members they had to drastically curtail open hours.
UUs are going to have to come to terms with the vast damage they have done to children. No group has been more active and more enthused at promoting the insanity of gender stupid than UUs. The OWL program promotes trans and gay choices, and denigrates normal hetero choices. My view is that we should tolerate trans and gay members without promoting or celebrating this choice. I know several UUs who have trans children, and the affirmation by parents and the community has made the trans choice more inevitable and more strong. We are wrong as UUs.
OWL was such an amazing program back when my goddaughter, now 25, was in it. So sad what it’s become.
Thanks, Carol. I've kept up with your Kafkaesque ordeal party because it's interesting, if distressing, in itself but partly also because your clear and detailed documentation of what you've been subjected to by the UUC represents a microcosm of what's happening to so many people all over the Western world at the hands of this insidious, authoritarian, regressive cult. I'm sorry your spiritual home no longer exists for you as a result of the UUC being captured by this cult ideology. I think it's clear you and Bruce have outgrown this organisation and deserve far better. I trust you will find a spiritual path and hopefully a group of kindred spirits more in tune with your values and your high level of moral and intellectual integrity.
It's only a matter of time before the harms of gender ideology are widely recognised and ultimately rejected as more people are negatively affected. However, in the meantime the widespread infiltration of this ideology into every aspect of society, supported by "progressives," is truly a dystopian nightmare which I fear is only going to get worse for some years yet. You have my complete support and I'll continue to follow your excellent blog.
To be sure, this behavior is not limited to Progressive Trans Allies. It is Progressivism. Progressives, though they won’t acknowledge it, need to demonize another group. The presented image of loving and compassion is a facade used and presented to assure themselves of their superiority (as you experienced with their innuendo and insinuation).
It is also telling that Progressives commonly call others they don’t like, racists and Nazis because the Nazis were the Progressives of that time. Progressives turn on their own when convenient.
Progressives and the Democratic Party. The Dems promote trannies. The states that are "trans refuges" are dem states. If you oppose tranny madness, vote Republican.
No! Absolutely no way will I vote for that orange scumbag. You vote for whoever you want, but those who identify as Democrats, liberals or even centrists are voting against their interests if they vote for Trump. As Democrats, our mission should be to return our party to sanity. (Check out: https://www.di-ag.org/) The Republican Party has been destroyed by Trump, and I don't know if it will ever rise from the ashes. Republicans won't save us from gender ideology, because they can't even save themselves.
And BTW, stop referring to "trannies." That's disrespectful. I don't subscribe to gender ideology, but I still believe those who are gender dysphoric, trans, or non binary deserve our compassion and respect. Even if we don't receive it in return.
Trannies - I honestly don't care if you or they are offended. Get off your fucking high fucking horse, honeypie. Neither you nor the trannies control my language. As you are a liberal, I know that you have a deep abiding need to tell others what to do, but you need to control that impulse.
I WANT to offend the trannies. It's time to stop treating them as if they are honest actors. They are not. They are pedophiles, and groomers, and unworthy of my respect. I use trannie and will use it more in the future.
How infantile. Get a grip.
You liberals are always trying to inflict your version of reality on normal people. Not on me.
Calm down. You're having a temper tantrum.
Since the gender cult uses words like “ transphobes” , I see nothing wrong with calling them “ trannies”.
Plus, I also see nothing wrong with offending them . They do more than offending anyone who disagrees with their ideology! Just look at what the TRA’s do to women!
Sure, if you want to add to their contempt and make them feel even more self-righteous, and even less likely to listen to a sane discussion on the issue, then by all means call them names. Makes all of us with genuine concern who are trying to have thoughtful discussions look bad, though.
When people act like racists and Nazis, they deserve that label. I'm thinking of Donald Trump, JD Vance, Mark Robinson, Laura Loomer, Q Anon conspiracy theorists and every other MAGA voter on the Trump train. Let's not pretend the problem is just with the far left. The far right is bonkers and has been since Trump came on the scene in 2015.
Hating Trump and others is just another form of cultism… When were we taught to hate and “other” people? We are all brothers and sisters. I was a “Never Trumper” in 2016, but in 2020, the Lord gently led me to answers that showed me I had been brainwashed by mainstream media and propaganda towards Donald Trump. The Lord lovingly asked me, “When did I teach you to hate?” I will never forget that moment, I wasn’t filled with shame or blame, just loving correction. Then I began to see Donald Trump with new eyes. No he’s not perfect, but he did and will again make America Great, Affordable, and with RFK (a life long Democrat) at his side, they will make America Healthy Again! I’m so excited at the thought of having two former democrats working together! I don’t consider myself a Republican as I’ve voted on both sides and feel that I’m an Independent, but I’m voting all RED this year to save our country from censorship, trans-mutilation surgeries (which my 22 year old son wants to let the government pay for him to have), to help our children with chronic health conditions (which I’ve also suffered with since age 9), and commonsense. Please consider having an open conversation to discuss issues rather than blindly seeing only one side…
No, I don’t hate Trump. I don’t hate his supporters. But he is not fit to be president, and you haven’t been led to support him for any rational reason.
A tour de force. Thank you for your great work, as always. Love the graphic as well!
Good piece! Thank you.
Trans ideology has destroyed the Unitarian Universalist Church that was such a big part of my childhood in the 1970s and 1980s. It is tragic when I try to think what the Reverend Robert Mabry Doss would think if he were still alive today.
I am with you. I was a part of the Seattle network of Unitarianism about 25 years ago, then took a pause. Whenever I considered returning in recent years, there were red flags so I didn’t continue. But it’s sad. It was originally a safer haven of free thinkers in my young adulthood. Now it’s another loss to grieve—one more loss to ideological capture in these times. Congratulations on having the courage and fortitude to stand for your convictions.
> “I want you to know that I hold very different beliefs than you on these topics and I ask that you remove me from your mailing list.”
Why is this a problem?
Read the quote in context. This person has never spoken with us about gender identity issues. Nonetheless she declares she never will. She takes this stand even as we are expelled and even as her organization embarks on aggressive promotion of gender ideology including to children (a major action) without any back and forth with those who have concerns. By the way, the "very different beliefs" she has could well be deemed "very different" by her because she is responding to the straw man inaccurate version of what Bruce and I advocate rather than the reality of what we advocate.
> This person has never spoken with us about gender identity issues. Nonetheless she declares she never will.
Again, why is this a problem? That person has stated a disinterest in having a particular conversation with you. Why do you think you have a right to demand she has this conversation with you regardless?
The person in question has declared that her position differs from ours, without giving us the decency of a discussion, a back and forth wherein she makes sure that she understands correctly what we think, and she hears what we have to say in response to her concerns about our views. The key here is this: we are being drastically punished by her organization WITH HER CONSENT. Moreover, we were friends for a long time.
Your wording is odd. You challenge our "right to demand." We are not pestering this person. We are honoring her request to not contact her. We have never claimed that we have a right to force her to talk to us.
Her approach, however, has made us lose all respect for her. It is not one to praise. That this woman's approach is embraced by nearly every single person in our former community is very troubling.
It reinforces ignorance, and constructs a cult-like bubble around those who remain in the community. It directly contradicts the Eliot Covenant which says everyone promises to hear and respectfully consider the views of people who have different perspectives. It's also just a nasty way to treat friends.
> The person in question has declared that her position differs from ours, without giving us the decency of a discussion, a back and forth wherein she makes sure that she understands correctly what we think, and she hears what we have to say in response to her concerns about our views.
Again, you do not have the right to demand that people have a conversation with you, on a particular subject or at all, when they do not want to have that conversation with you. Why are you presenting this as something that you have a right to expect from them? More, why are you using this particular statement, a statement of specific disinterest, as anything bad?
Are trans issues the only thing you post on your mailing list?
Also, you literally do demand that she contact you in the first paragraph of your comment. Which is it?
Tell us specifically which UU organization has been involved in this. Time to name names. Don't conceal the name of this group.
It's the "Eliot Institute" which "creates and supports an intentional, inclusive community of celebration, friendship, and joy with opportunities for exploration, spirituality, and growth for Unitarian Universalists, their families and friends." It has organized and run "intergenerational camps for UUs, their families and friends since 1947." The particular camp we used to attend was the first week of August each year in Seabeck, WA, and was attended by people from B.C., WA, OR, and a few other states/provinces. Bruce began attending a long time ago when his children were small, having been invited by someone he knew via the children, and I started attending when Bruce & I met many years ago. In between the August camps, we visited/hosted/spoke by phone and email, with people we knew from camp, loving those friendships (which are now lost.) The Eliot descent into gender madness is part of the overall UU descent, as I think you mention in another comment. The people we've lost are members of various UU congregations in their respective locations, which are all immersed in the madness we're sure, and the OWLs program/other UU things, have been corrupted by it.
Thanks. As I spent much time in St Louis, where "Eliot" is a common name and associated with UUs, I thought it might be "Eliot Chapel".
I think the problem is when you have someone you thought of as like minded who writes you off over one issue on which you have some disagreement. I've been chastised and unfriended on social media by people (sometimes close friends and family) who generally vote the way I do, but are confused on the issue of gender. It's disheartening.
If they sincerely disagree with you and are not going to be convinced by you, their making it clear that they are uninterested in carrying on in that specific discussion makes sense. Why should they do something that would create only heat, no light?
It arguably shows that they are willing to compromise, being willing to compartmentalize away a subject of disagreement while leaving the broader relationship open. There are presumably other things that you can talk about, other subjects of conversation right?
Holding up that attempt at compromise as a rejection is definitely a choice. If you demand vindication of your original position from them ... Well. I would suggest that, for anyone, there are much more productive things to aim for that that.
You have it backwards. I am willing to compromise, drop the subject or whatever would make them feel safe from someone they label a TERF. THEY are not. THEY reject me outright, because I don't agree with them on one subject.
They are entitled to do so, if they disagree with you particularly in one area and if they think this disagreement enough to merit the end of the relationship. People can maintain their own standards.
Who are you? This is nuts. Are you in agreement with those who would mistreat and shut "gender critical" people out of their lives? You seem to be making the case that it's justified, because it doesn't meet their "standards." If that's the case, then they really have no tolerance for dissenting views, or any understanding that reasonable people can have different opinions on an issue. You're admitting they're intolerant, and that they're willing to throw away a friendship over a disagreement on just one issue. That's their right, but it's ridiculous.
I think that being surprised that people who think that trans rights are a serious human rights issue act in accordance with their beliefs is unwise. Why on Earth would you not do people the credit of believing what they say? I would honestly think you should be more out out if they said one thing and did the other: That would be rank hypocrisy. At least this way you know your friends are honest.
You might disagree with them, sure. You have not convinced them of that. Again, being upset that what you see as a minor issue they see as a major one, that what you might think they should take as a reasonable difference they see as a dealbreaker, is unwise. This especially if they have been consistent in saying this is a major issue, no matter what you might think or prefer if it.
Thank you for this comprehensive report.
I ran away from what I know understand as a cult, I couldn’t tell the difference between ad hominem attacks and actual death threats.
My rational mind knew the difference but my body did not and is slowly learning not to overreact to judgements like what happened to me.
I started recognizing the DARVO and the gaslighting. I thought that I was guilty or would be accused of the exact thing I was the victim of, of being raped as a child. This accusation never happened, and I was able to escape and free myself.
I was told or it was implied to me that every time I was vulnerable and talked about my life story, it caused people harm, and that in order for me to stay I had to apologize for talking about my life experiences from before I arrived at the church and to also apologize for not making sense or lying about having a speech disorder.
This has left me afraid of judgement thinking if I say the wrong thing or interact with the police, then I would say something that would cause my life to be ended. This is not the case, and I was capable of being nervous with the police with them not seeing it as anything other than nervousness.
They over reacted or began to over react to every little thing I said and isolated me from interacting with anyone because I was told my normal voice or disorder makes people uncomfortable. Up until they screamed at me and I had to run away. They wanted me to apologize because I raised my voice back when I wasn’t being listened to, to which I tried but they didn’t accept it. I was too disabled for them, to traumatized from the wrong reasons and too anxious.
I’m so sorry for your experience… everyone is deserving of love - church should be a hospital accepting of everyone, but also recognizing that we all need to change to become more like Christ and align our will to His. 🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻
Thank you, yep.